Motivating Learners (LCC 02 – E 01)

LCC 2 - Motivating Learners

In this highlight from the round table discussion, the learning leaders discuss how to motivate learners.

Transcript to Follow Along

Andrew Barry

Why don’t you guys kick it off, then I’d love to know what you each discussed.

Alec Miller

I’m gonna just bring this up and sound really smart and then kick it to Lisa. So we were talking about the arcs kind of theory of building, training, which arc stands for attention, relevance, confidence and satisfaction. And what we were talking about at the end here before we jumped in to this main room was, I was saying, I feel not a confident in providing the relevance and the confidence piece I really the relevance piece especially and I bet that this is something we all struggle with, how do you show the ROI of training? How do you show ROI of of training? How do I derive numbers based on training? The second piece that I didn’t feel super confident in was confidence, making sure that we said said, making sure that our trainees feel like experts at the end that they are totally empowered to use whatever knowledge they were given. So with that, I don’t know what you want to add on to at least that, but I appreciate that that idea that you brought up there. I hadn’t heard of ARX before.

Lisa O’Donnell

Yeah, it was, I was just saying, as we started talking about this, I didn’t do like research in advance. But I just remember this, like hearing about this model, and like thinking about this model back in grad school, so I pulled it up. So I’ll just read literally verbatim what the resource that I googled was. So attention is it refers to the learners interests, it is critical to get and hold the letter, the learners interest and attention, relevance, the learning process should show the usefulness of the content. Confidence, this component focuses on developing success expectations among the learners. And then satisfaction, there is a direct relation between motivation and satisfaction, learners should be satisfied of what they achieve during the learning process. So it’s just kind of like a good like, I don’t know, reminder that. I guess, as an instructional designer, it’s probably always in the back of my head whenever I’m looking at a learning but it’s maybe should be in the forefront more often. And I think where we left off is like, to me the relevance piece, especially when I’m thinking about designing to like a senior partner, Andy, I’m sure this is something that you probably interact with, like very senior partners in an accounting firm, or an advisory firm, can have very busy schedules. And so you really have to pinpoint like, what is that nugget that they need? That’s going to help them or solve a problem, save them time, save them from coaching all their junior staff, whatever it might be, that I want to put in training, and what can i strip out that’s really not critical, relevant for that moment, and I can deliver a different way?

Andrew Barry

Yeah, it’s all very learner centred. In all of that, right, considering what from their perspective? That’s awesome. What about you, guys? Celine and Andy?

Andy Spector

Yeah, I think we thought we finally talked about relevance as well. I mean, we talked about a bunch of different things about potential. A lot of times people say they don’t have time, but there’s, it’s usually there’s more underlying reasons why they say that, like, obviously, relevance is one of them. Another is, you know, is it really a priority? Am I really incentivized to do it, maybe my company doesn’t set to something better, they really not measure me for doing this. Also, he really talks about the team dynamics as well. Is are the managers are the leaders? Are they supporting learning across the board? Again, I think at the end of day, it’s like, it doesn’t really matter what company you work for. It’s really about the team that you work with. And again, I think it’s some of those different factors that come into play. Like the causes, and there’s obviously just so much information. we’re bombarded with emails and Slack, you know, slack messages or whatever, you know, platform you use, right? There’s only so much time in the day. And what again, what is what is the most crucial to getting my job done? So how do I really learn the flow of work?

Andrew Barry

Yeah, that’s the Holy Grail. Yeah.

Alec Miller

So the first I feel like the topic we were trying to talk was motivating learners who say they don’t have time for training, like what are our solutions? Right? I don’t know that we really Lisa nice. specifically talk about solutions. We started talking about arcs that made me think of Okay, this will help me to make sure my training is really relevant and attention grabbing and, and satisfaction that direct connection between the motivation and satisfaction, but as far as beyond just like the instructional design, how how we build the training, what are some other things that we could do? And the one I wanted to point out really quickly that Lisa has come up with that, unfortunately, isn’t really good news this year. Right?

Lisa O’Donnell

I’ll just clarify did not come up with this.

Alec Miller

You might as well take credit right? I think so. Yes, but KPMG is Built a training centre in Florida that they are now sending people to for training. And I thought, Man, that is a brilliant solution because people who say they don’t have time for training, if you make it so purposeful, that I sent you to another state, you know what I mean, to go and do this? There’s no excuse, there’s no I don’t have time. This is this is the point. So and I know with COVID, and everything, and I feel very badly for Lisa, who I’m sure her and her entire team, we’re getting ready to really ramp up and use that place. Yeah, um, what do we do as opposed to that? Is a specific place a specific point in time? Is it a lunch and learn that happens every Wednesday at nine? Is it something like that? Can we create some regularity that makes it a place? You know, what I mean, is I thought that that was a great solution. But now I can’t send anybody there. So what’s the alternative? You know,

Andy Spector

I have a sort of simple idea. Actually, I think a lot of times we focus on programmes and events. But I’m saying this to Celine, like, a big part of learning is around reflection. And so at an individual level, you can do a daily reflection. And you could also do a one on one with somebody else where you have some accountability. Because what what well, you know, it’s almost like a mini Richard retrospective, like what went went, well, what didn’t go well, that’s learning. And then and then applying that and you can also do retrospectives at a team level. And that kind of answers more of the culture of learning piece. But I also think it helps from a motivation piece, because it’s your own, you’re bringing your own stuff up, it’s relevant to you. And again, it’s not super systematic, it’s not this huge programme, which we always try to do. It’s something very simple and grounded needs can be, it can be more very habitual.

Andrew Barry

Celine I want to bring you in here, because you told me about this thing, you do the someone like me series and this concept of guiding nodes. And it’s sort of, you know, this made me think of that, that it’s this more lightweight, sort of, you know, it’s not a huge big programme thing, but something that people can can learn from others in the organisation, do you want to share a bit more about them?

Celine Jeremiah

Now, I’d love to, we actually just had that last week. So you have really good timing on bringing it up. And I’ll bring everyone up to speed real quick. So we have our orientation. Our week long orientation, which is now virtual, completely virtual is called x school. And we have various sessions throughout each of the days. And on the final day, we added a new session that I facilitated, which was called becoming in the last session, and it was an AMA with what we called guiding nodes. And they were last sessions who have been at elastic for anywhere from one to three years. And they basically just talked about their experience and what has helped them become successful last ditions. And there was an AMA sheet that the x schoolers got to fill out and ask whatever questions they wanted. And we kind of just facilitated answering those questions in a live panel with all of those guiding nodes. And I think it was a really cool experience, because not only where the school was super excited to be able to talk to a lot of students who have kind of been there done that and are really experiencing what they’re about to experience. But it was also something that this kind of surprised me a little bit was so so appreciated by the guiding nodes themselves. And they were so happy and excited to share. And it was just so cool to see them light up when they got to talk about something that they had learned. So it was a really win win on both sides. And I think that to Andy’s point, that was definitely them reflecting on some of the things that they’ve learned. So it was a learning experience for them as well.

Andrew Barry

And how much easier is it to learn from your peer or someone who’s like just one step ahead of you, right? That’s a very cool thing. So what like how did you set that up? Like, how formal is it? How often do you run it?

Celine Jeremiah

Yeah, so we just we just started. So this was our first one, we’ll definitely keep doing it, because we got some really good feedback. But how we did and actually I didn’t bring that in. So thank you for asking how we set it up was these individuals we I wanted to think of a way to choose them strategically in a way that also motivates people to keep sharing their story. So our talent brand team has this series called someone like me, and it’s basically blogs that have people out elastic sharing their story and sharing how they’ve used their own uniqueness as an advantage elastic. So one of the speakers for example, has an accent and she Um, I think I called her blog excelling with an accent. And she kind of wrote about how she’s used her culture and her communication to help her connect with people as being someone with an accent. And so we chose people who Britain someone like me blogs and actually at the end of the AMA that we just had forex school. I did encourage the x schoolers you know, you’ve seen this now we would love for some of you to become di nodes for the next x school. And how they can do that is by writing a someone like me blog and then from there. We can choose the people for the next round.

Alec Miller

Yeah, so when I’m sorry, Andrew, no good covered. The someone like me blog, is that an internal-only thing? Or do you share that out on with the elastic.com website?

Celine Jeremiah

Yeah, it’s on our website. Let me get the link and I can show you.

Alec Miller

Yeah, I’d love to. At the old company, I work for NCR, we had something like that, where we were trying to get employees to blog about their experience at NCR. And it kind of fell flat. After the first couple months, we were doing really well, we had, you know, our main trendsetters, or whatever you call influencers, right? Who were totally all about, I’ll go that extra mile and write a 300 word, blah, blah, blah. But then after, like, the first couple months of like, we got those people it was it went like it, and I was like pulling teeth to try to get people to like write something. And always the same excuse is just what we’re dealing with right now. I don’t have time. I don’t have time for that. Um, so I’m just wondering, like, have you been doing this for a long time? Is it continued on successfully? if so how did you continue to get people to do it? Yeah,

Celine Jeremiah

yeah, it’s a good question. And I think part of that was the cross functional involvement that was involved, that made it a little easier. And the talent brand team has had this blog series for a while. So there are still several folks who have already written blogs that we could kind of pull on if we don’t get anyone new. But I’m hoping we do get at least one or two new people from the most recent school. And I think that, man, the How do you get people to continue doing it, I think that some of it is seizing opportunity. And some of it is kind of continuing to build the same culture, we were pretty strong. And I would say the top brand team gets credit for this is pretty strategic about when there is something exciting that people would be able or would kind of motivate them. I mean, there’s been a lot that’s happened this year, for example. And so that has been a huge motivator and being like, hey, like, for these reasons, we encourage you to share your story, and kind of having a forum to link people if they want to share someone like me blog. And I don’t know if there’s I’m curious to hear what everyone else thinks because I don’t know that there’s one right answer to that.

Andy Spector

More of a, I guess, a question or comment. I mean, if you think about it, do people post on Twitter, people post on Instagram, people post on Facebook? Right? They keep the keep posting? Yeah, I’m gonna ask this question. Why do you think they keep posting on Facebook? Twitter,

Alec Miller

Everybody posts so they can get likes?

Lisa O’Donnell

attention? Yeah.

Alec Miller

we all we all want that dopamine thing that says somebody likes you, right, that. I hate to say it, I hate to boil it down to simplicity, but that’s what it is, in my opinion.

Andy Spector

Okay, then why do you think they’re not posting on June box and things like that?

Alec Miller

Because they don’t get likes. Right? So they do all this work? And then and then it’s like, for what? So it only almost makes me think when Celine was saying I would love to hear what other ideas we have. I look back over here where Andrew said extrinsic. Yeah, things are gamification and rewards. If I give somebody a free meal at their favourite restaurant, every time they write a blog, I bet I’d get 50 bucks tomorrow, you know, but am I then like, motivating them the wrong way? You know, saying, like, I then I’m like, yeah, or sad or write something I don’t know.

Andy Spector

I’m gonna give you an example. And if you ever read Daniel Pink’s drive, if you don’t read, so there’s the scenario, he opens the book up enough, you guys. So rageous 1995. Right. There’s two encyclopaedias out there. There’s one that’s backed by a huge company, and they pay millions of dollars for experts. And then there’s one that starts a few years later, that’s people just go and their own free time and start creating content. Now, if you ask anybody traditionally, which one would have succeeded people would have back to the company and what I’m talking about as Microsoft Encarta. Other ones we’re talking about is what you eat. And yet people are still contributing to Wikipedia. So and the whole book is all about intrinsic motivation. And what’s sustainable, right? So I just want to share that as an example, where extrinsic motivation has not didn’t work. It didn’t work in that example, traditionally, way it works in the short term or not in the long term. So how do you enable autonomy mastery purpose? Yeah, I think that’s

Andrew Barry

No, I’m gonna welcome Marsha in a second. But let’s just wrap up this thought because it’s actually perfect timing. Marsha is gonna have a lot to contribute to the second topic as well.

Alec Miller

Oh, I mean, Andy, you’re so right. You just nailed me. I use the Google crowdsourcing app all the time. All it is is me helping their machine learning and what do they give me? points that don’t mean anything. Nothing. I in Well, I don’t do it for the point. Or the level of Google, I do it because I enjoy participating in something that I think creates a greater good. So would I help it understands what pictures are people and what pictures are sheep? I know that 10 years from the from now, when I take a picture of a sheep, it’s gonna really say that’s not a person. I don’t know, I but I personally enjoy that. But how do I find that personal enjoyment for everybody else, like reading this book now? Yeah, there’s different.

Andy Spector

I think the problem is we try as companies, we try to force things like we have an agenda, right? Like, there’s always there’s always something there. I think if we were more about, again, being human centric, we, I think we would do a better job and understand human nature, I think we’d be better off and designing programmes that meet people, and then really understand all the different groups and working with them. So that’s why I love I love the idea of crowdsourcing, for example, and having people share their own ideas, right, and having ownership there. So I think those are some examples. But I know

Andrew Barry

I love all these points, because you guys are touching on this thing, you may have seen that I’ve been writing about it recently, quite a bit as this flywheel where people learn from each other, we talked about that there’s peer to peer learning. And then you get experts in saline, you guys are doing this amazing job at identifying who those experts are. And then to then the final one is teachers and teachers are experts who get joy out of sharing their knowledge, right, like for whatever that is. And that’s the intrinsic stuff we’ve been talking about. I gotta ask you, that feel like you’re contributing to this greater good? And, and I wonder like, yeah, you know, I’m familiar with KPMG. And, you know, maybe it’s the same in PwC. I think, Alec concilium, you guys come from pretty different type companies. And it’s like, how do you? How do you get those people when they actually see value in their time? Helping others like that they are contributing to a greater good.

Marsha, feel free to jump in as well, if you have any thoughts? Yeah,

Marsha Parker

you know, so I did some research on the role of an online facilitator, my dissertation. And what I realised is that the role of the facilitator has to flip they have to see it as flipped. So they become this guide and coach instead of this know it all impress person that has all infinite knowledge. And I tried this in my online classes, and it works. If I allow the control to be not from the instructor, but from the students, I get so much richer dialogue and discussion, then if I lead the discussion, so I let them start it off and get the ball rolling, and I only guide them. So like bumpers on the bowling alley. It’s kind of like I steer them in this direction, but I don’t give them those insights that they come to. And it’s so much more of a richer online experience than it is if it’s guided by somebody who’s a facilitator that my role is to regurgitate knowledge and get you to act on these principles. Yeah, that’s just that’s a very different role and aspect than what we’re used to. in academia and incorporate.

Andrew Barry

Yeah. It’s what Andy’s saying like about the, like, the agenda, and I come in with his agenda. So was that a leap for you motion? And but once we’re done with this, I’m gonna get you to introduce yourself. Oh,

Marsha Parker

yeah, sure, sure. Sure. You know, what, it wasn’t a leap because I  did a lot of research on it. And more has a lot of stuff on this about the three levels of interaction as required in any kind of online, you know, environment, you got to have peer to peer, peer to instructor and instructor to the class or the peers. If anyone of those are weak, then you have no, you will see participation slide off and people’s interest with this dissipate. I don’t think it’s hard. I think it’s hard sometimes when instructors who have not created their own content, who’s probably regurgitating who’s not really versed in some of the content of certain areas to do that, because then they’re not seen as an expert or guide on the on the side, you know, but if I know if you know your craft, you’re willing to let go of that control. So you can get that epiphany. That’s,

That’s just my perspective. That’s such a good point.

Andrew Barry

Anybody else have a thought on that?

Alec Miller

I just want to ask Marsha Did you say was the motor program or something like that?

Marsha Parker

More, more is a theorist it’s called constructivism. It’s this kind of, learner-centred, what we’re trying to do at Ford was like learner-centric content and curriculum and our driver from a learner’s perspective.

 

 

LCC 2 - Motivating Learners

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