Learning Culture Conversations (LCC) – Session 1 – Episode 4
We were proud to host five learning leaders in early August for the first Curious Lion Learning Culture Conversation. In this highlight from the round table discussion, the learning leaders discuss how to measure the ROI of training.
Transcript to Follow Along
This idea of measuring the ROI, right? Because I think a lot of that is like, what is the value of that time? Like why people should I take myself away from selling more widgets and making more widgets, whatever the case is an investment in training. And as many professionals we always have to justify everything we want to do with, you know, the spend lift with ROI on that. So, and a dominant this was something we talked about a lot you you mentioned on your leadership team is starting to see training is less of a liability. And ally, he talks about learning equals dollars. And this idea of like onboarding, being so expensive and use that as this cost saving, I’m not having to onboard people. What other ideas what other ways, successes challenges you guys have around this idea of like motivating the spins to justify by far away.
So here’s what I’ll say is, I think it’s I’ve been talking to some executive coaches who are like, you know, do how do you you know, get it show the ROI, we always coaching platforms, etc. and they kind of go back to well what’s the what’s the success criteria for that, you know, executive who’s being coached, and how does that align? Like, it’s really hard personally to kind of think about that, you know, you know, going from reaction to learning to behaviour to ROI, okay, look, I get to the behaviour change, but never to the ROI. And I’ve been trying to figure out like, would our leaders care that I can prove that someone it was the ROI on I’ve been trying to figure that out? You know, really trying to figure out into the quality of learning etc. They haven’t Export? Yeah, that’s what I will say. So I haven’t really been not I’ve been measuring. I’ve been trying to figure out where and how our programmes have an impact on the employee experience, like what moments, what does learning or programmes or experiences make the most sense to help amplify or contribute to that person’s experience at the company? what fuels or engagement because I think I probably will never be able to truly say like, this executive, this learner, or this leader, if because they went to our programmes, they helped to save as much money because I don’t work in manufacturing, or I don’t work. I mean, it’s as hard. What I will say I have been trying to figure out what actually has the highest impact on engagement. And what we found that duty is. One is if someone’s already working remotely, our remote employees our highest engaged employees at PDX second is someone’s proximity to leaders, so if they get exposed to them, or they say rooms with them or zoom with them. And then lastly is like the procs convey the proximity of that person to headquarters. So we found that our amea and our apeejay offices were the least engaged because of the furthest away from headquarters, which is strange. So when I think about that, I think about like, how can we amplify or create the best and it’s like valuable experience when so people do come together. So we try to make sure that they are able to connect with like for a particular programme, we are going to have our CEO and our CPO as part of the kickoff experiences. So we’re trying to close that gap. We’re going to equalise experience, so everyone’s remote, they can learn where they are. And we’re going to try to forge you know, relationships across each cohorts and ensure that there’s a cross functional relationship building. So in my head, I’m trying to make sure if I had to measure that You have that programme from an experiential standpoint. So leave knowing that it was worth it, you know, but right now I feel like I’m probably two, three years away from truly saying, this leader who did all the things was able to make as much money. Like I just, I gotta be real, like, I just got to the point where we can start to see trends of our learning presentation. We’re probably two, three years away from the ROI measure. I’ve been real with our CPO about that.
But I think I don’t know, it’s like, in some ways, I think it’s, I don’t know, it’s almost an impossible ask, right? Because it’s, I mean, you mentioned already like, it’s, it’s, it’s essential, but it’s so far, like removed in the chain, like, you know, the learning the training piece might have been here, and then the actual execution might happen. You know, there might be three or four steps between the training and the actual kind of full realisation of a programme. What I do think What I think about it and I guess try to tie because, you know, I mean, I guess I’m more actively like selling some training sometimes to people like yourselves quite honestly, is this we know what business initiative is supporting, right? Like So what, you know, if you’re going to be, you know, you’re going to shell out the cash to, to, to do training with us, you know, what is that enabling you to do and what you know, so what’s the business imperative that’s driving, you know, your need to, to execute this training and I think that can be applied to internal training as well, it may not be a direct, you know, one to one, okay, if we do this, we pull this lever, you know, and then ROI comes out, you know, money comes out the other side, but it’s kind of it’s an enabler for you know, it’s a piece of the puzzle in terms of enabling and initiatives. So like I think a lot about for our stuff is supporting kind of digital transformation, and or modernization of practices, right. So as people are maybe looking to you know, they’re looking to To start to build a mobile team, they don’t have that expertise in house, for example, right. And so this is a way for them to get from point A to point B. And so our, you know, our pieces of stuff on that journey. So it may not be able to say, Okay, well, you spent this much, you know, here is exactly the, you know, the specific ROI that you’re getting. But, you know, if you it’s sort of, it’s almost like a taking away, like helping them understand why it’s not safe to stand still, right? Or it’s like, it’s if you don’t do the training, then you’re the parent, the business imperative, you want to, you know, execute on, you’re not gonna be able to do it because the team doesn’t have the skills doesn’t have the knowledge, whatever it is, wherever they’re lacking, to be able to execute that.
In some cases, it’s looking at the cost of avoidance. So what is it going to cost you if you don’t do the training, and then bringing that in, almost from a risk standpoint. Just another way to back into the ROI or potential ROI. Because you’re looking at time to proficiency. So if you don’t do it, you got to learn new skills, then you better bring in a consultant, you’ve got these extra overhead costs that are going to come into play, where you could do the training for less amount and then measure the skills and coach appropriately. So how fast can they come up to speed? And then bring that cost down? Because otherwise you could be out there forever.
Dominic you mentioned how when we last spoke, how your leadership team was seeing training is less of a liability. Was there any like specifics around that, that you can share that?
A lot of it is in relation to how we had to pivot due to COVID. Our service model or I should say our business model really ties in In with face to face relationships with our clients and their employees, and given the fact with shutdowns and things like that a good portion of our service model turned virtual out of necessity. And that required a great deal of a required creating new service lines based on this virtual platform it It required, obviously the the skill sets of our people we have a very wide demographic of employees. We’re clinically a medical based work group. A lot of people do not have the the skill sets, opening up a zoom meeting and running a zoom meeting or going into our SharePoint site. It’s it’s you It’s when we talk about having our subject matter experts, you know, engaging them in developing. So we got people who’ve never used PowerPoint. So it’s like, okay, so when when when I talked about how how our leadership team was starting to recognise the value of this. We literally saw mid March. We were at the precipice, given everything that was going on. But we were able to show over the remainder of the month through through April through May that because of that rapid pivot in our services, the rapid training required to change that to instigate that that pivot it saved. It really did it save the company, and it allowed for us to weather Weather this storm pretty effectively. We are also now starting to see you know, much like everyone else has been speaking on the the the need for keeping our people engaged with learning opportunities, you know, Alec, you you touched on it with with you know, now people are looking to find that next step in their career, you know whether ping ponging within an organisation or or elsewhere, so, you know when we talk about having all of these offerings and trying to figure out new ways of bringing in or collaborating with with the external content providers. You know, I just had a conversation with my CEO last last week and and he was telling me how, you know, above and beyond the coaching and mentoring that the company’s providing to you To leadership level, he’s actually going to be starting to work with another group on additional leadership training and figure out a way in which that can be shared with with the rest of the organisation. So a lot of it a lot of it was a organisational maturity standpoint. We were at a certain point, we weren’t where we needed to be in my mind from a learning culture, but now we’re there. And now that we’ve seen the ability to rapidly pivot and the the results of that